The Human Experience · Episode

Episode 124 – Richard Turner on Stage Presence, Wonder and Performance Art

A conversation with Richard Turner

Richard turner has been won many awards including the Golden Lion award in magic, from Siegfriend and Roy. He is widely considered one of the greatest card mechanics on the planet. In this episode we dive into his sheer willpower & perseverance, against all odds.

Published
November 26, 2018
Runtime
1:02:17
Portrait or artwork for Episode 124 – Richard Turner on Stage Presence, Wonder and Performance Art
Listen or watch

Stay with the full conversation.

Play1:02:17

Episode field notes

Show notes

Richard Edward Turner (born June 16, 1954)[1] is an American expert card mechanic who is known for his card trick performances. He has been honored with a Golden Lion Award in Magic, from Siegfried and Roy in 1982 and the Lynn Searles Award for Excellence in Card Manipulation. He is the 2014 and 2017 recipient of the Close-Up Magician of the Year award from The Academy of Magical Arts, and the subject of the documentary Dealt (2017).

Turner was born in San Diego in 1954, which he dubbed “the year of the full deck” (referring to a standard 52-card deck of playing cards, plus the two jokers). At the age of seven he became infatuated with the television show Maverick.[2][3]

His eyesight failed at the age of nine following his recovery from a bout with scarlet fever.[3] The macula (the center of the retina) of each of Turner’s eyes was completely destroyed, preventing forward vision, and the rest of his retinas suffered a condition he describes as a “shotgun pattern” resembling and functioning as if they had been blasted full of holes by a tiny shotgun filled with bird shot.[2] By the age of thirteen, his vision deteriorated to 20/400, twice as low as the level deemed legally blind in the State of California and, over the years, what little vision Turner possessed gradually deteriorated to the point where he presently sees little more than indiscernible shadows, and those only peripherally.[4]

Turner attended a special school for the visually impaired in Santee, California, where he refused to learn Braille (and never has). His younger brother, David, had been taking karate lessons for nine months, and invited Turner to accompany him. He began karate lessons in 1971 under the tutelage of Master John Murphy, the United States’ founder of Wado-Kai, a Japanese hard style karate and was good at it, and began training at Gene Fisher’s Gym eventually earning a fifth degree black belt in Wado-Kai karate. [5]

In 1972 Turner auditioned for a small, non-profit San Diego Christian theater operated by television actor Steve Terrell, and performed for six years with the “Lamb’s Players”. Terrell taught Turner how to look people in the eye so that they would not know of his visual impairment.[2]

He was later introduced to Bobby Yerkes, the stunt coordinator for the Wonder Woman television series who also trained celebrities for the show Circus of the Stars. Yerkes taught him to swing on the trapeze, walk a tight rope, and take high falls. [4]

We rely on listener support!!

If you value even one of our shows, become a member get exclusive early access to our recordings, extra bonus content for each of our episodes a chance to request guests you want us to bring on and so much more.

Read the complete recording

Transcript

Existing transcript, with its original wording and timestamps. Automated transcripts may contain errors.

Find the moment

Search this conversation

Try “soul,” “attention,” or “AI”

Search 1531 passages and 11,333 spoken words.

foreign

if you want to hear more stories I have

more in there even they even get more

more interesting more scary yeah

definitely I mean I I read somewhere

that Muhammad Ali had you kidnapped

what I started dealing doing my show

basically and and he said we'll give you

ten thousand dollars a week to come to

the Middle East and play cards for oil

money

I said uh nice and he was I fight with

me he said what you're turning down ten

thousand dollars a week I have a very

rare visual condition it was first

documented in 1760 by Charles Bonnet and

it's called Charles Bonnet syndrome and

it's a condition where a person who has

lost their sight and should see black or

nothing for some unexplainable reason

still sees colors patterns shapes images

and I'm as far as anyone knows the most

extreme case on the planet then there

are other people that are lazy I think

that's one of the worst disabilities of

all is laziness or procrastination

we are so we can get so irritated when

when somebody wants to do tomorrow what

they can do right and how

you know we are not procrastinators and

to me I'd rather give me take my vision

cut out cut the eyes out of my head

rather than procrastination any other

way I got to the point you know for you

know many years later where I could do

500 push-ups in 12 minutes nine seconds

I topped out at 340 on the bench press I

could do the splits across two chairs

and I could curl more than my body

weight but if you wait lifters can curl

their way they can military the way but

it was very few that can curl their own

body weight more than their weight

so in 19 2015 I get a letter from

Ripley's they said oh you're in the 2015

issue of Ripley's Believe It or Not book

of eye Poppin Oddities and you will

receive a certification that you are a

certified Oddity you are a certified

Oddball so I say you might be an oddball

Xavier but I'm certified

[Music]

thank you

what's up folks Xavier Katana here here

is our interview with Mr Richard Turner

Richard has a phenomenal story he is a

card mechanic and the major caveat is

that

very young age

not so it makes his story

it's very interesting we get into a lot

of really amazing stuff and I I saw his

documentary

and I I was just really moved by Richard

story Richard won the Golden Lion award

in Magic from Siegfried and Roy in 1982

he was the 2014 and 2017 recipient of

the close-up Magician of the Year award

it's an amazing story you guys are gonna

love this episode here is Mr Richard

Turner thank you guys so much for

listening

[Music]

the human experiences in session my

guest for today is Mr Richard Turner

Richard thank you so much for making the

time to do this welcome to hxp

I am honored to be with you today

so Richard you're regarded as one of one

of the best card mechanics in the world

but to many people they might not know

what that is can you tell us what a card

mechanic is please of course and the

term card mechanic goes back like 50

years before the invention of the

automobile if you go back to the

hustlers during the 19th century they

were referred to as mechanics or

sharpers a mechanic is somebody who can

fix the outcome of a card game which is

different than the slights used by

magicians to perform card magic those

techniques are

I'll just say they're a lot easier to

develop and there's thousands of very

good card magicians but the techniques

for the card table are just many many

times more difficult to develop and

there's just a handful of really good

world-class card mechanics partly

because of the amount of hours it takes

and just for the history you know avoid

the old riverboats and the gamblers back

then the gamblers they would spend like

half their life developing one or two

moves and that's what they would become

known for and I just happened to spend

my life learning a whole lot of the

moves

yeah I mean there's there's a caveat to

this and there's a big turn in this

story for lack of a better word when you

were nine you suffered a retina disease

that took your vision can you can you

tell us about that

well I was

my sister and I Lori we both had scarlet

fever and we're not sure if this is what

caused it but uh we both got scarlet

fever and our actual our M Elementary

School we were in quarantine because of

that and uh and then shortly thereafter

I was sitting in my classroom fourth

grade

1963 and the teachers writing stuff on

the board and first it was clear and

then a moment later it was all fuzzy I

looked out of my book my book the words

all of a sudden went fuzzy so it was a

degeneration and we're not exactly sure

the cause other than my sister and I

both got scarlet fever and the same

thing happened to both of us and uh and

then it was a degeneration that started

with the retina which is the I'm sorry

sorry with the macula which is the

center part of the retina and that was

the first to go so for oh for a number

of quite a number of years of my life I

I had only peripheral vision I it would

be like having a hat in front of your

face in the peripheral vision was

measured at 20 over 400 which is twice

as low as what's considered legally

blind so even the vision that I had off

the out of the size of the eyes was very

much distorted 2020 is normal vision

2050 is what you have to have to drive

in 20 over 400 is like eight times as

low as what you're allowed to you must

have to drive a car so I've not I've

never driven a car except when a few

times when someone wasn't looking

so it's it's absolutely remarkable I

mean I I saw the documentary that you

guys did and I was hooked by it how did

you overcome this adversity I mean

you're you're not ever really able to

look at the cards so I mean how are you

able to mechanic the cards without

seeing what the card is

that's a really good question and

there's a number of questions in there

um first um I I was able to see the

cards up until about 25 years ago I

could put the cards within two inches of

the corner of my eye one eye or the

other and I could make them out so I was

able to play cards up until like 1990

around 1990 1992. and um but since

everything is done by touch and my sense

of touch

was heightened because of the lack of

sight I you know kind of the neural

networks kind of relocated regener

reorganize themselves around my visual

cortex my sense of touch

so uh how I identify cards well let me

just put it another way what I can do

with the cards it'd be better to explain

it along those lines sure you can take a

deck of cards and shuffle them up and

say I want to play seven cards dead I

want five players in the game I want to

sit at the third hand and I want you to

deal me uh straight

and I will let you Shuffle the cards

I'll deal them out and as I deal I'll

let you take those cards out of my hand

as I'm dealing anytime you want and

shuffle them up some more and remove

cards from the deck and just hand me a

stack of cards each time I go around the

table and the hand that you selected in

the game you selected with the number of

players you selected will have the

winning hand so even if you could if you

had 20 20 Vision or if you had x-ray

vision or if you had a deck that was

face up where you could see every card

coming off the deck or if you had a deck

that had giant embossed K's on the K and

J's On The Jig how did that even be

conceivable

hmm you know I I find you know there's

there's something so amazing about

overcoming that level of adversity that

you faced

was there ever a time where you felt

like giving up

well I started off as uh when I was very

young five years old I got attention

from my artistic talent I could paint

and draw you know beyond my years and I

was always the best artist all the way

through school first second third fourth

grade then of course the vision started

going south and I was known as the best

artist and so now all of a sudden I

couldn't paint and draw anymore so what

was my identity at that time was kind of

stripped from me and that caused me to

you know Rebel and you know like

everybody doing ice during the 60s and

early 70s not everybody but in my case

you know I got involved with the wrong

people and uh the the kids the the

straight kids you know they would tease

hey Magoo and other things uh how many

fingers am I hold it up and you steal

your money and things like that and so

that caused Rebellion but the ones that

didn't do that and didn't judge were the

drug needs and so I got involved for

about three years in the drug scene not

a long time

and that was kind of my rebellion and my

Escape or my frustration my way of

trying to satis uh separate myself from

my frustration and for my life like I

said my loss of my ability to paint and

draw

and I even at one point was so mad at my

vision to One South that I took a

magnifying glass and I went out in the

backyard and I stared at the sun through

the magnifying glass literally trying to

burn the eyes out of my head oh my yeah

and um so anyway but then uh I was at a

park wanting to buy some drugs from

these people and asked them you know if

they had any Angel deaths that's the

time what we were looking for and they

said they had something better and I

said what's that and they said well a

relationship with the creator of

everything you see

and so I said I said mind if I sit down

tell me what you know and from there I I

changed for my life I'm going to the

drugs to going to church and uh that

turned my life around from there I uh

within a month after that I got involved

with the martial arts I met John Murphy

who was Mike karate instructor

I took I stopped on February

1371 is when I met the people in the

park March uh the next month March 5th

71 is when I started karate and he

didn't care if you were blind deaf or

dumb he beat everyone equally and he's

the one that kind of laid the foundation

that whatever's in front of you you can

fight your way through it so he's the

one that I credit for laying down that

initial foundation for me to believe

that you know the situation is not all

is not perfect is not great but we can

fight our way through it and then that

also I got from that you know came

confidence I got stronger because my

abuse from the years that I was involved

with drugs and I was already a small

person

that uh that helped build up my strength

and he said uh you in the in when I

first started the women the kid the old

the old ladies were beating me up

and the kids were beating me up and so

he said you need to put some meat on

your bone and so you got him he started

lifting weights I uh I got to the point

you know in the four you know many years

later where I could do 500 push-ups in

12 minutes nine seconds I topped out at

340 on the bench press I could do the

splits across two chairs and I could

curl more than my body weight but if you

weight lifters can curl their way they

can military the way but it was very few

that can curl their own body weight more

than their weight anyway so he he turned

me into a pretty darn strong guy and if

you look at some of the videos or uh

pictures you'll see that I was pretty

strong yeah I thought that was actually

very strong

and uh so that uh that that kind of laid

the foundation

um to not look at it as a disability but

as a challenge to uh overcome just like

you have a better fighter in front of

you sure think about how you can out

maneuver like a game of chess that

particular fighter

yeah and he would tell me don't

advertise your weaknesses you know don't

let the person in front of you know that

all you see is a big blurry blob scare

them down like you can see them and pull

those right through them

how old are you now just for a sense of

contact here I'm 64. and you moved into

karate when you were How old uh four

months from becoming 17 I was 16 years

old I've been doing that for a long time

and I haven't stopped working out and

already

seven years and

[Music]

just six months I believe and I could

actually put it right down to the day if

you wanted me to take a take your time I

mean how much of this is you know a

mental I mean all of this is is really

just a manipulation of the of the mind

right you're you're able to feel the num

the cards I mean when you when you run

your fingers down the the side of the

deck of cards you're able to feel what

the number is right

no not down the sides all you're feeling

is the edge of the cards sure but I can

feel the I can feel the difference in

the thicknesses of cards down to a

thousandth of an inch

but that's not quite what you were

saying stating but uh that's uh give you

an idea of the touch that I have and I

was I have been a touch analyst for

United States playing card company the

biggest Card Maker in the country for

many years because my fingers are able

to tell them and give them information

that even their most most precise

measuring devices are not that's kind of

a cool thing

how would you compare your sense of

touch now to you know pre-cbs has it

changed

well let's just Define CBS um I have a

very rare visual condition it was first

documented in 1760 by Charles bonnen

it's called Charles Bonnet syndrome and

it's a condition where a person who has

lost their sight and should see black or

nothing or some unexplainable reason

still sees colors patterns shapes images

and I'm as far as anyone knows the most

extreme case on the planet the average

person with CVS will just have periodic

splashes of color or a lights flashing

or you know

you know I see a kaleidoscope of

beautiful Vivid colors patterns shapes

every subconscious image you can imagine

and the thing is I don't see these

images in the back of the brain like

when you're dreaming or imagining I can

look at them I see them in front of me I

see them in external space in the same

way that you see what's in front of you

a visually visually sighted person with

C in front of them I see in front of me

so I'm actually seeing things they're

obviously not really there they're

obviously projected from my mind and I

was just I was just recently uh

interviewed for a Harvard study on the

brain and Dr August said that my what

had happened is my touch networks are

looping back around to my neural network

and uh like when I go into a pool I'm my

eyes will be completely closed and as I

go underwater all the colors I'll see

the water go up over my head and there's

a and they change Hues to a doctor Hue

and then when I come back out the it

goes down now see the water passing

by my face and the Hues change to a

lighter uh shade and he said that is

because the sense of touch is so refined

refined that's not quite the word he

used it used

um that it by a sense of touch is once

again looping back to my neural networks

creating a sense of vision

so um that's kind of how I see things

and I love the way I see things I live

in a very beautiful world uh the thing

is it doesn't matter if it's day or

night you can lock me in a vault with no

sign no light source of any kind and I

still see these Vivid Royal blues and

Royal Reds and yellows and greens and

whatever Shades they happen to be at the

particular time

in the documentary a deck of cards is by

your side pretty much all the time I

mean you wake up grab a deck of cards I

mean you would think there's a

waterproof deck of cards that you take

in the shower with you I mean how much

is that repetitive sort of conditioning

of your body with the motion of moving

the cards and feeling the cards how much

does that Connect into your ability to

mechanic them

or manipulate them yeah

yeah and very very crucial as we've been

sitting here the whole time they've been

talking to you I've been dealing seconds

with a deck of cards that's why I do a

second card out and say the top card

after the middle of deck and I do

another one that particular slide I've

done over a hundred million times but

what I do is I take a move I'll just use

the one I'm talking about right now the

second deal I will break it down until

it's fine to a smallest components and

figure out what my fingers need to do my

thumb must apply the precise amount of

pressure to push over exactly

22.6 thousandths of an inch and with

this particular decks that's the caliper

or the thickness of two cards and then I

will then my right thumb will sweep

across the deck in a 64th of a second

will engage that second card and deal it

out so I'll break it down piece by piece

uh in slow motion until every exacting

element of the muscle memory is firmly

embedded in my brain and then I turn it

into a subconscious habit I have I'm one

of those persons that is constantly

moving when I was a kid they called me

Gilligan from Gilligan's Island they

called me a perpetual motion machine

because I never stopped moving I was if

I was uh uh in elementary school today

they would have probably stuck me full

of those drugs that they give some of

these poor kids today that I think

steals their initiative

in a lot of ways I think there's just

too much prescribing going on around

there this world anyway they probably

would have done that to me and that was

actually an asset

um so that's that's what I would do with

the moves and so I am constantly honing

and practicing the moves and uh I put in

for I put in like an average of 10 to 20

hours a day and I sustained that seven

days a week for 26 years straight then

when my son Ace of Spades was born when

I was 41 so I would I was responsible

for having to feed them part of the time

and so I'm holding them and I couldn't

practice because he would slobber all

over my cards and so I had to reduce

some of the practicing and at that and

then about three years that was 95 and

in 1998 I got my first talking computer

my sister Lori I called her my genius

sister because she is she is a genius

she's a brilliant and um she was way

ahead of me and the the uh the adaptive

technology you know talking computers

and and all the wonderful stuff that's

out there now but when it was first

daughters he was always she always had

the best and the latest and she kept

telling me you got to get a talking

computer you got to get Jaws on your

computer

so I finally got one in 1998 and and

that uh because I had to have my fingers

on the keyboard I couldn't practice so

my office is set up we have two

computers in front of me here and my Mac

and I have my PC and all I do is just

spin this chair around and I'm at my

poker table in that way so when I'm in

between

working on some kind of thing and

checking emails or whatever you know if

someone calls I can instantly turn

around and go back to practicing

you invented um an acronym dealt is

something that you talk about uh with

regards to life and and Outlook in

regards to everyone being held a certain

being dealt a certain hand in life what

is the meaning of dealt

well I have a program that I do I I love

I love speaking to companies now and uh

I actually had to be drug into it my

wife who is a had a degree in speech

Communication in English literature

would tell me speaking people want to

hear what you have to say and I'm

sitting there going I can perform but

man speaking in front of people anyway

so uh that was one of the things that I

had to get over and people keep wanting

me or talking and going why do they even

want to hear me why people wanting to

listen to me but they listen and so now

I'm uh I do a lot of speaking and I have

a program I call winning with the hand

you've been dealt d-e-a-l-t and delt is

an acronym d stands for dreams our

dreams fuel the fire in our belly e

stands for excellence what opens doors

is becoming an expert at TV in a state

of Excellence a stands for analysis we

have to analyze the obstacles analyze

our assets L stands for loyalty we must

be loyal to our company colleagues

customers values such as honesty and

integrity and T stands for tenacity it's

tenacity that breaks down the barriers

that stand between us and our dream and

I kind of give my personal examples in

each of those areas

uh relating you know the tenacity it

took to fight 10 men in a row when I

earned my first Blood my first degree

black thought I'd fight 10 men in a row

and that took an obsessive amount of

tenacity as did the uh it did to uh

learn and develop all the things that

I've done with the cards

that word obsession is that something

that you would describe yourself as

well I call myself the poster boy for

obsessive compulsive behavior and out of

it

running joke in our family my you know

if I want I see a shirt I like I have to

buy a dozens of them if I find whatever

you know she says you you are I'm

obsessed about whatever's going on at

the moment all right and I'm enjoying

whatever that happens to be and I if I'm

busy like I'm visiting with you I'm

talking with you uh whatever's going on

at the moment I'm it's at the top of my

list and I'm I have to say I'm obsessed

about it and my whole life has been very

very wonderful and full of blessings and

I have been extremely blessed so with

the wonderful life we've been together

28 years and my son who just graduated

from Trinity and has a new job with a

very fine company and uh he's been my

travel department for my email ever

since he was born as has been my wife

right point there you have it

I'm just astounded by your ability to

overcome all the the challenges that

that you've been you know dealt by life

and I think we all go through those

things right we all have something that

is challenging us in our lives and it's

kind of up to us if we overcome them or

not

but I I say everybody has challenges

every single person out there has

something that they're dealing with

maybe they're you know they were

assaulted as a kid I was doing a program

with one of the people that are working

with our film they're using it actually

to help change the lives of of people

and we did one recently we're getting

ready to do another one in New York

where people watch the film they all

fill out this card of things that that

were they lonelier or injured and one

one of the guys at one of these events

he was uh charged with a crime and sent

to prison for years and then the DNA

proved that he was not the person that

did it and so he had a lot of bitterness

and anger and um another lady was

talking about how she was sexually

assaulted as a kid and then those are

extreme you know very tragic cases and

then there are other people that are

lazy I think that's one of the worst

disabilities of all is laziness or

procrastination

my wife what have we are we are so we

can we get so irritated when when

somebody wants to do tomorrow what they

can do right now

we are not procrastinatives and to me

I'd rather give me take my vision cut

out cut the eyes out of my head rather

than procrastination any day of the week

in regards to dealing with those

limitations you had a mentor that was a

big part of your life die Vernon can you

tell us about him please

oh divern was my card Mentor he was born

in 1894 so how far we just we just

celebrated it would have been 120

24 years old

um anyway he was born in 1894 he lived

to be over 98 years old my wife Kim and

I threw him his 98th birthday two months

before he passed away but for over half

a century for like 60 years he was

recognized and considered as the best

card man in the world he was known as

the man who food Houdini that took place

in the early 1920s and so he spent his

entire life chasing gamblers around the

world until and he would trick them or

trade techniques learning all their

different moves and he took a liking to

me back in 1975 and I and at that time I

just turned 21 and I had already been

working with cards since I was like

seven years old so I had developed some

pretty difficult moves except for I have

to say they were wretched by my

standards today but he saw something in

in me saw someone that was crazy

obsessed like he was

and um my first thing you would say is I

don't care how good how fine that brief

is I know you're up to something because

your actions are suspicious and so that

that was one of the first things he said

to me and so I took that and I started

analyzing it and then I'd go back and

I'd show them how I change things and

then he started seeing that I was just

putting in all this hours then he

started challenging me and he started

describing to me different moves

techniques controls and the thing about

what Verner did is he didn't describe

them to me in the way that he could do

them or the way any other magician that

we've ever heard of could do them

because I couldn't see what he was

showing me he described them to me in a

perfect manner the way he wished they

could be done some of these moves he

worked on for 70 years and never

accomplished and so I would literally

you know I would get really close to him

close to his hands into out of the

corner of my eye trying to get a picture

of what he was showing me and of course

he also let me check out his hands feel

his hands you would tell me yeah put

your fingers on the side you want this

you want to be totally natural in your

execution so he would describe these

moves in a way that it would there if

you can do it that way it'd be much more

deceptive but it's so much harder

because you have you don't have the same

control over the deck that you would

doing the using the classic grips that

many card mechanics and magicians used

over the century and so I developed

these things and then I'd come back and

I'd show them and he'd go that's perfect

that's it and then you call all the

other top card guys over Larry like how

much is Tony watch this and uh and then

I you know and that just encouraged me

to keep practicing more and more and it

wasn't for years later that I finally

found out you finally admit to me that

the things he made he told me he just

made up he just wanted to see what I

came up with he just wanted he kept

challenge me and uh so I I uh he would I

always say in my thing you know take

possible out of impossible okay possible

out of impossible is what what others

thought were was not possibly was not

possible to be done I figured out ways

to make it happen

yeah I think you're a walking example of

of the possible inside of impossible

yeah and I'm also a walking Oddball I'm

a certified oddball

let me tell you about that and I I in

1984 I was on a TV show called Ripley's

Believe It or Not we've offered a

Ripley's Believe It or Not sure yeah

Ripley started a show back in the 1930s

um but anyway I was on this TV show I

built a castle out of cards uh that was

from all my used cards for from a couple

decades worth my wife said we have a

whole room with nothing but used cars

can you do something with them I can't

throw them away you guys what if they

made cards illegal so I thought okay

I'll make a card house no I have too

many I make a card Castle so I glued

together over 200 000 cards it weighs

825 pounds and it's on display it's the

second largest Ripley's in the country

my wife was so happy to get it out of

the house anyway so in 19 in 2015 I get

a letter from Ripley's they said oh

you're in the 2015 issue of Ripley's

Believe It or Not booked of eye Poppin

Oddities and you will receive a

certification that you are a certified

Oddity you are a certified Oddball so I

say you might be an oddball Xavier but

I'm certified

okay

um you know you talk about you talk

about all these hours that you put into

what you're doing with the manipulation

of the cards how many hours per day of

practice are you actually putting in

well for years like I said I averaged 14

hours 14 was my average date of practice

the only time I was not practicing is

when I was trained working out or

training and even then I had cards

strategically placed or if I was at a

gym I would have them you know right

next to whatever I was working on and

I'd grab them do a few a few reps and

then do a few deals and then that or try

to hustle someone in a card game that's

a gym which I did over years and years

back

um so I averaged 14 hours a day I loaded

a low day would be 10 hours there would

be times when I'd get up at six and not

go to bed till three right practice like

20 21 hours in a day that was it's not

all that common but there were days that

I literally had the cards going 20 hours

in a day now because of the computer and

having to answer emails and things like

that I put in only I get three hours

minimum to average three to ten hours a

day is what I'm putting in now maybe

there's sometimes I get a 12 or 14 hour

day when I'm I'm on the road and away

from my office but I still

put in at least three hours I love

sitting with my wife in the evening

we'll put up bring up Netflix and you

know go watch some oh some past series

that we we will be binge watching and

the only reason why I'm doing is it

because it's

uninterrupted practice time going to the

movies for the same reason with a black

guy go in the movie for well because

it's uninterrupted practice time well I

can visualize in my head I can see my

mind instantly creates pictures in front

of me of what I'm hearing so I'll get an

idea of what's going on with the with

the film but really what I'm doing is

getting uh uninterrupted time with uh uh

with the cards

thank you guys so much for listening to

this episode we are going to take a

small break for a message from our

sponsors

[Music]

what's up guys we are interrupting this

broadcast to bring you the deal of a

lifetime Helix sleep spoiler alert has

changed the game on sleeping so let's

talk a little bit about sleep sleep is a

basic human need like eating drinking

and breathing like these other needs

sleeping is a vital part of the

foundation for good health and

well-being throughout your lifetime this

is where Helix mattresses comes in Helix

has built a sleep quiz that takes two

minutes of your time to complete they

use the answers to match your body type

and sleep preferences to the perfect

mattress whether you're a side sleeper

hot sleeper you like a plush bed or a

firm bed with Helix there's no more

guessing or confusion just go to

helixsleep.com

hxp take their two minute sleep quiz and

they'll match you to a mattress that

will give you the best sleep of your

life they have a 10 year warranty and

you get to try it out for a hundred

nights absolutely risk-free right now

Helix is offering up to 125 off of all

mattress orders that's right get up to

125 off of Helix sleep.com slash hxp

that's the link you want to go to

Helix sleep.com slash hxp

[Music]

a discipline is so important to this

whole story I mean your story and

excelling at anything so you know how

much would you say is this just

downright discipline

well I the thing is I don't have to

discipline myself I I it's the other way

around I can't stop disciplining myself

I have a strange kind of makeup and

um where every example I'm at church and

someone brings up that I was distracting

people by practicing with my cards and

so uh one time I thought okay I had to

put them down during that hour and my

wife Kim says you're shaking why are you

shaking because For the First Time I

didn't have cards in my hand and so then

I took the donation envelopes and I put

them in my hand and that works so but

then I solved the whole problem by uh as

I said I worked with the United States

playing card company as their analyst I

had them give me some Decks that have no

printing on either side they're just

blank pieces of paper but it's a there's

a regular playing cards but they have

nothing on either side so I have I call

those my church cards and my wife even

keeps uh some in her Bible case that she

has her Bible in

um decided to pull them pull them out do

I have my ones that I take that I have

just for that purpose and then I have

other ones where

when I'm in the ocean I was out in Costa

Rica with my brother Mike and he was

he's a he was a champion Surfer and he

we were filming some scenes for the delt

movie and

um you know we're me surfing and I'm a

lousy Surfer I'm uh I have a spectacular

crashes

and then when we were done with all the

whole thing and all the camera and

everything when we get out of there and

all of a sudden my brother sees my you

know swimsuit and he goes let's head in

your back pocket oh I mean oh those are

my waterproof cards

so so I mean how many cards how many

card decks do you have how many packs do

you have back there

I have in the house I well I have tens

of thousands in the house but in the

warehouse of my friend John Walton we

went down to about maybe a hundred

thousand decks but I have enough

yeah I have I I made enough to last me

for my life and uh and my friends who

wanted really good quality cards so

um yeah I do have a lot of decks I have

different uh different uh kinds the best

made card is the B92 they start making

them in 1892 that's what the 92 stands

for and the most recognized pack of

cards is the bicycle rider-back they

started making those in the 1880s and

that's probably the most recognized

label in the world is a bicycle deck but

they're all made by one company us

playing card companies

so this is interesting I thought when I

read this

um you know as your skills became more

widely known you you received some

offers from the criminal world I mean

but you were wary about being a hundred

percent used what is this about tell us

more about that

well that is true I've if starting the

early 80s you know I was on a TV show

called that's incredible with John

Davidson fan Target Tim fan targeting

and uh I think it's Kathy Lee Crosby so

she broke her leg playing football the

night before the day before I was a film

in studio with her when she did come up

and say hey I made a full body cast I

want to say hi

anyway

um

and that show at that time there was

only three networks ABC NBC CBS and so

it was seen in the United States by like

60 million people and then it went to

125 countries immediately so it was seen

all over the world and

um from that came the mob uh I had a

the first offer uh was a guy I'll just

call him Rd

we saw what I could do he wanted to play

some cards so we sat down to play and I

showed them how I could take his money

he could Shuffle and cut me because then

he goes you're holding out on me I'm not

holding that that means I'm palming

cards out of the deck held my hands up

in front of them said Shuffle the cards

again how many players are at the game

how many players this time where do you

want to sit I dialed out Four Kings he

goes after he saw that so I'll give you

a thousand dollars a day to come work

for him now this is 1981 a thousand

dollars a day back then was good money

and then he says I said no thanks and he

goes 2 000 a day and again I politely

refused and then he said how much will

it cost to buy you those were these his

exact words how much will it cost to buy

you and I instantly flashed to the scene

in The Godfather movie where the guy

wakes up and is his horses head is in

bed with him and he made him a deal he

couldn't refuse he was a hundred percent

used

and so what that means is when they're

done with you they dispatch you they

kill you and that that was one and that

guy he followed me for like six years in

in he would come and see me at the

castle and we'd have dinner probably

once a month and twice uh he and his

partner one of his Partners Associates

which is one of the top five Prime

families in the New York and if I said

the name everybody know

um I watched them being arrested haul

enough hauled off to uh jail on the news

and I thought that could have been me

and I won one time he invited me to one

of his games he wanted me to deal in

these private games and so we're going

to it and um he said now I have to tell

you everybody here own mountains and

that's a euphemism what it means is

everybody there we're very wealthy and

the driveway the place I went to the guy

literally own the mountain the driveway

was probably a mile mile and a half long

came to a guard house that was a

two-story guard house and we passed

through that walked inside went into

these rooms into this big

empty empty big open room and it was

crap tables blackjack tables there were

new dancing girls there was cocaine

piled on a table there was open bar and

everybody had it was all cash minimum

that was a hundred dollars everybody

were walking around with fistfuls of

hundred dollar bills playing the

different games

and he wanted me to be one of the

dealers because he said I can do by

myself but it took four of his mechanics

to do and so I I decided

um to see what uh

what his what how what the artifice's

mechanics were using so I'm standing

behind this table and the guy sitting

there playing turns around he goes hey

Richard it's me Joey you've been to my

place in La Costa and back in La Costa

as a Beach Town between San Diego and

L.A where the Mobsters had the beach

homes and he had he had propositioned me

you know

sometime within the year before to come

work for him he goes yeah you're not

playing here now are you I said no no no

Joey I'm just a guest like you are

because for the Richard's playing Joey's

leaving and if I would have been in that

game I don't think he would have been

quite so polite if I was the dealer

behind that table

and anyway so that was one offer and and

then um uh another offer came from the

Middle East it started off with a phone

call it was a very strongly accented

voice wounded talking about doing

business and so I said meet me aboard

you know the place I was performing and

I guess it was a Riverboat and I did

aboard the boat and it was a party of

five men they were all of Middle Eastern

descent and uh only one only one spoke

English The Interpreter there were four

there was the boss who sat to my who's

to my right and The Interpreter was to

my left uh when I went up they threw a

stack of bills on my table and said

let's you know see what you can do with

the cards I started dealing doing my

show basically and then he said we'll

give you ten thousand dollars a week to

come to the Middle East and play cards

for oil Mike

I said uh no thanks and he was afraid

with me so what you're turning down ten

thousand dollars a week

yep and so then he started arguing with

his boss and he was either probably

Farsi or Arabic I couldn't tell the

difference

um and then um

then he turned back and he said how

about 20 000 a week because I said no

he's arguing with his boss and he's

getting his boss is getting mad at him

and he's getting mad at me and he kept

upping thirty thousand finally said how

about a million dollars now he didn't

say if that was by the week

but again I did say no and they were so

mad they they had their dinners were

just served to them they threw down

their napkins threw down their Forks

threw another stack of bills on my table

and got up and left and because there

were so many bills there I thought they

were all like ones or fives they were

all one hundred dollar bills a big old

stack of 100 bills I had a good night

didn't have to put myself in a position

where I'd be 100 news

if you want to hear more stories I have

more in there even they even get more

more interesting more scary yeah

definitely I mean I I read somewhere

that Muhammad Ali had you kidnapped what

well Muhammad Ali was a wonderful

wonderful dear man I love the guy I was

very fortunate to know him I was in a

competition in Las Vegas hosted by

Siegfried and Roy in 1982 and it was a

showdown of all the top magicians and

cardmen from around the world and I was

the winner of that

and then afterwards uh someone tells me

somebody would like to meet you who was

there and watched the thing and I go in

and it turns out it's Muhammad Ali and I

was always a big fan of his because you

know at this point I had been in the

martial arts for like 11 years of 11 12

years and 71. so I was a big fan of

fighting and I've never missed one of

his uh boxing matches and you know so I

was a big fan of his and he turned out

to be a big fan of mine and we started

hanging out together went to shows

together and I can tell you some

fun stories with Ali but the kidnapping

one was uh I was this is another time

another year I'm just in a casino in

four Big African-American men come up to

me go Richard Turner you're coming with

us and I'm sitting there thinking I

don't think so and they didn't give me

much of a choice they were a good head

taller than I was and so there were two

in front of me two and behind back of me

they pushed me off the back end of the

casino they stuffed me into a limo the

limo Zips away whips around just you

know I can tell there were short

distances zigging zigzagging in and out

of the back sides of the casinos they

pull up behind another casino in the

back they open the door to in front pull

me out or you don't help me out and then

they with the two behind me just tell me

where to go and they go through the back

end of the casino into these Hall

passageways into a big Suite where Ali

comes running up and throws his arms

around me and a big bear Richard how you

doing it's so good to see you again so

he had me snatched because he wanted to

uh wanted to visit with me and he heard

uh some thing new things that I was

doing and he wanted me to demonstrate

them for him

so that's how he had someone snatch me

and bring me to him interesting you know

you talk about these different ways that

you know people want to exploit your

skills it is there a defense against the

skill that you have in casinos or

well the casinos their security is very

very good it's the safest places to

gamble are in the casinos I mean they uh

they have cameras everywhere they know

everything you're doing sand when you've

been there when you were there last if

they have any suspicion on who you are

or that you might be able to do

something those cameras are going and

the eye on the sky is watching and of

course that each time the players come

up with a way to try to beat the casino

then the casino changes their procedure

to cancel out that new method that the

players are trying to use to profit

against the casino and of course the

casinos up until like before the 1980s

you they were questionable you know they

would have what they called bust out men

people that had skills uh where they

could deal seconds or in a peak or

whatever it would take to uh take the

money take the player down but when the

when the mob kind of lost control and it

was more more owned by um

corporations you know they they cleaned

up their act I'll just put it like that

and now instead of cheating the players

well they'll just refuse service to

somebody they don't like if they think

you're skilled instead of bringing in

someone like myself or or a guy who's

unbelievable like a man like Steve 40

who works within the casino industry

um so bringing someone like that being

there to take them down they'll just say

Xavier I'm not sorry to tell you this

but you can't play here anymore goodbye

goodbye next door and then you go next

door and they've already won them next

door so next door says uh sorry you go

across the street so then you find out

they won't give you any more cards so

it's the easier way instead of cheating

you they just tell you to get lost

has there has there been a time where

you use your skills for your benefit

yeah it's like fighting you know that

that's probably if I have to say where

I've slipped

um and Fallen you know I never went back

to drugs or anything like that but I've

always been I've always been a card

player my my sisters when we first

started playing I'm seven years old

seven eight nine ten we'd play for M Ms

the red being the most valuable we play

for Massage Time 32nd Annie that 15 to

15 to 30 seconds and uh then you'd have

to pay up after every hand up to uh

going through high school I was always

the

playing cards with people at the first

day of ninth grade I I won a quarter off

the guy sitting next to me laying a

hands of cards and I got my cards taken

away and sent to the back of the class

first day of first of ninth grade and so

I always I it's like a a

karate uh training you train you learn

to kick you learn to punch but you go

will it really work what if someone's

punching me back can I will these moves

actually be effective and so

yeah and it's the same thing with the

card move so the that's where I would

slip if you would through the years I

would get in games and I would have to

try out the moves I'm practicing this

I'm sitting there practicing this Dawn

move for 10 000 hours now I want to put

it to its actual purpose so there were

times when sometimes I'd take the money

and other times I'd just keep the money

right back to them other times uh when

people are openly challenged me that's a

different story and I've had people very

very wealthy people

uh challenge me to see if I can beat

them one time a guy wanted to just cut

high card for the pot and we cut kept

cutting and cutting and cutting we we

cut over a dozen times before he finally

surrendered and if you don't have money

worse when you double the double the

double the double

and um

that was fun for me another time the CEO

of not a Fortune 500 company not a

fortune you know Fortune fifty probably

the 1450 I won't say the name but he

invited me to Martha's Vineyard and he

said you can join our game under these

conditions we know how tricky you are

with those little fingers of yours so

when it's your deal one of us

at the table we Shuffle the deck is laid

on the table and you have to deal those

cards from off the table and it was he

he was the CEO and he had a number of

his VPS the top VPS in the game

and and so I had to deal with it like I

said cards on the table and that's one

of my favorite methods because it's so

deceptive and all night long he kept

slamming his fist on the table going

there's no way you can be cheating and

the thing is when he said if you can do

it go for it but I know it can't be done

there was two things there first he

challenged me

you know if you can do it go for it

that's challenged me as uh what I can do

and what I'm known for and uh the other

is if I could do it I had his permission

but he said go for it if you can do it

and so anyway

um I said he kept slamming his face

there's no way he can be cheated and one

of the things I do in my show is the

demonstrations I let someone Shuffle the

cards

and then I have them deal out to three

or whatever number of players it doesn't

matter and then deal my cards from

anywhere on the deck when they come

around they'll five cars to us and then

I'll spread it out and I'll show that I

I would say when they shuffled cotton

dealt I had four of a kind

via the winning hand and so

um to have done it under the conditions

he set forth was even easier

but that way anyway that's that's one

example but there's a other times and

there was one type of guy pulled a gun

on me

he he was from Wyoming he said I've

heard about you James was here in Texas

you're all a bunch of sissies I'm from

Wyoming you and I are gonna play a

little heads up poker that's how he

talks and he was um Wyoming Cowboy and

so he was obviously challenging me knew

obviously knew who I was and so we sat

down and we're sitting there playing and

we've got some chips from the casino at

this particular place now it was a focus

you know but they they had gambling

there and um anyway we bought all the

chips and we're just buying it 300 at a

time and within five minutes I had his

three hundred dollars bought in another

300 within five minutes I had that and

then finally yeah he pulled a gun

slapped me across the nose with the

barrel twice so I knew what was it what

I what was going on yeah and he held it

under the table and said keep dealing

and uh and at that point I'm going oh

okay and now soon I said I gotta go and

he said don't you move and uh anyway so

then I just made sure everything was

clean and pretty and the money just

pretty much stayed where it was because

it was just at that point became pretty

much a dead evening game

and then finally one of the managers a

place who I knew walked within about

four feet of and I I moved over to him

you know the way God was gonna do

something with someone stand there I

said the guy's got a gun

and anyway security came in and took him

it's unbelievable man I mean I you know

before this interview I talked to some

people about who we were going to have

on I don't think they had heard of you

before and

everyone was so surprised I mean they

couldn't believe that you know someone

that had challenges with their Vision

could could overcome such a massive

hurdle and I think that's what's so

inspiring about your story is that you

know if you can do this anyone can do

anything and that's what I take from it

oh big time exactly you just gotta

decide a to c you know don't let

anything get in your way just go

whatever your objective or A to Z don't

let the BCD get in your way

um focus on it determine what you want

see it picture visualize it in your head

and then don't turn left into or turn

right and don't let anyone anyone that

says Ah that you can't do it or that

can't be done just look at that as uh

one of the one of the uh fun obstacles

to overcome in the process

I think that's what's so inspiring about

what you do is that you're showing

people that you can really overcome

anything that you put your mind to

yeah and and of course even then you

know my whole life I've been a performer

for over 40 years and I've performed

over all over the world I've been seen

on media and different things in over

200 countries and uh by uh since I did

this some special for China by over a

billion people now and um and the thing

is the vision part of it has only been

the past 25 years that I mentioned it

before that I was a professional

performer and I did not tell people

about my vision and when someone else

did I would get a little uppity with

them because I wanted my work to stand

on its own Merit I didn't want people to

say are you pretty good for a bad boy

you know disable whatever and so I would

uh I kind of I just say it had a little

chip on my shoulder and so I would uh

shy away when people wanted to say hey

but this makes it more incredible

so okay so it's more incredible in fact

one of the best that's incredible first

approached me they wanted me to walk

with a white cane I said no I won't do

that and so the first time I turned down

the highest when the highest rated shows

on television

in 1981 when they first approached me to

be on their show and they said they

dropped the white king part of it and

and uh and then so I just did the show

and then um but I say that because uh I

don't consider myself disabled I have I

see differently than everybody else we

all like I said have our challenges if

it's laziness if you assaulted if you

were thrown in prison or if you uh Had

Your Eyes gouged out

um you know we all have something that

we have to deal with and that just makes

life more interesting and more fun we

can look at it as a downfall or as a uh

as a as a tragedy as something negative

or we can look at it as part of the

challenge and I choose to look at all

anything that's put in front of me as

part of the challenge and I've had other

challenges outside of the vision I mean

all my years in the martial arts man uh

you know my my body's old and the parts

are wearing out so haven't missed a

workout in 47 years but I've had knee

surgery I've had hernia surgery I've got

three shoulder surgeries

one particular fight I won the match but

I lost the war because it ripped my

shoulder apart and other other things

and so you know and I just come out of

the hospital

I uh yeah I get out of hospital at noon

on Friday I'd be back in the gym against

the doctor's orders and of course now

the doctors can't hear this

um and I'd be right back in the gym

working out the other and say I had

surgery on my shoulder workout that's

three quarters of the body and I would

recover in a fraction of the time they

were always totally astounded how fast I

would be back behind the deck or back

fully working out and that's because the

same blood that is going through your

body you know I'm working out three

quarters of the body where that body was

in a cast or injured or taped up or

whatever they did say the body's blood's

still going through that area they just

somehow accelerate the

heating process it flush out the

swelling and one time you know I'm

getting off on a little a lot of

tangents for you sorry about that I I

had uh my I've had seven hand surgeries

my hands are my living people say why

are you fighting while you you're

hurting your hands so I've had seven

answers after one of them

my hand was as big as my foot and I went

in my wife my beautiful wife Kim and I

we worked out for 150 minutes without

you know taking a breath that's you know

two hours and two and a half hours

workout two and a half hour workout the

swelling my hand went down I thought it

went down 50 from that one workout and I

went back to the therapist I said look

and I had just been under that day and

she they measure your swelling every

time she goes into you go down 50 it

went down 60 in a 24-hour period it was

just because of the uh doing what the

doctors are afraid to have me do because

they're afraid of lawyers and that's get

back in the game and I'm not encouraging

people to go against their doctors

I'm stubborn and I did that but I

encourage others to do that listen to

your doctor because I don't want to be

sued it's been bad advice but I was not

one that listened to doctors I'll just

say that that was me

yeah I mean it's it's inspiring I mean

we really have to know when to push

forward right I mean it's important to

understand our limits and then push a

little bit past them

yes and then when you start pushing then

accelerator and I said people say oh man

I need to lose uh weight or something

you know start off easy I tell people

okay just walk

three houses down and walk back five

minutes do something that is so easy you

can't not do it as you just walk down

the distance of three houses then the

next day walk down to four houses then

the next day jog down the distance of

one of the houses then walk and then

just slowly and then what happens is you

create a habit and your body becomes

addicted to that happy the endorphins

and the different things that are in our

miraculously made brain you know start

excreting and that creates a desire to

do it and then eventually it almost

becomes where you if you can't if you're

not able to do it you're going I'm gonna

go nuts if I don't have a chance to get

in that gym and work out well I'm gonna

go nuts if I don't get that deck of

cards back in my hand

Richard this has been amazing man I I

really appreciate it I know we had been

planning this for a couple months now

where can where can people find your

work is there a website that they can go

to to order the documentary to watch the

documentary oh yes uh the documentary is

called delt d-e-a-l-t is in Delta Hannah

cards it's an award-winning documentary

it's been uh it's 95 on Rotten Tomatoes

it's five stars on iTunes and you get on

any video on demand platform iTunes

Amazon Prime Google Play Comcast it's on

Hulu and the international distribution

uh uh October is being released

internationally around the world

um but you can find it all over just

Google deltmovie.com is one of the

websites in my website for when people

want to book for speaking engagements or

shows Richard

turner52.com Richard Turner my name how

many cards and deck52.com and uh my

personal and then for bookings Kim

Richard turner52.com is I can contact my

manager but those are the main places

but even lots of watch a lot of stuff on

YouTube if you just want to see clips

from the film or

dozens of other shows and things that

I've been on or everything I've

described here you can go online and

actually watch it done live in front of

uh people around the world

perfect guys my guest his name is

Richard Turner the documentary is called

Delta go pick it up it's an amazing

watch we are going to get out of here

thank you so much for listening you will

hear from us next week

Original recording

About the guest

Richard Turner

Richard Edward Turner (born June 16, 1954)[1] is an American expert card mechanic who is known for his card trick performances. He has been honored with a Golden Lion Award in Magic, from Siegfried and Roy in 1982 and the Lynn Searles Award for Excellence in Card Manipulation. He is the 2014 and 2017 recipient of the Close-Up Magician of the Year award from The Academy of Magical Arts, and the subject of the documentary Dealt (2017).

View the complete guest profile

Continue exploring

View all episodes

The HXP dispatch

Carry the question with you.

New conversations, essential ideas, and recommendations worth your attention—sent thoughtfully.

Private by design. No spam. Leave whenever you like.

Independent conversations

Help make the next one possible.

Membership sustains ambitious, unhurried interviews and keeps the complete archive open to curious listeners everywhere.

Become a member