Transcript for Daniel Pinchbeck – How Soon Is Now?

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what’s up folks

Xavier katana here with the human

experience this is our episode with mr.

Daniel Pinchbeck in which we covered his

book how soon is now in this episode we

discussed the brink of ecological crisis

our planet is facing we talk about how

our actions in the next few years will

determine the destiny of our children’s

children this is an essential episode to

hear if you care about where our planet

is headed guys we survive on your

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for you our listeners a huge thanks to

Daniel for his time please also find us

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Facebook page and just a like and thank

you so much for listening the human

experiences in session my guest today is

mr. Daniel Pinchbeck Daniel my good sir

welcome to hxp thanks for having me I

really feel it experience so Daniel your

new book is called how soon is now and

you’re talking about the the global

tribe and what’s going on on a global

scale I mean why don’t you wanna show us

off with what is your background how did

you get to writing this book I mean I’m

a New Yorker I was from a sort of

cultural background my parents were

artists went to college dropped out

after a couple years started working in

magazines kind of work their way up

magazine chain as a writer and freelance

sir was also writing fiction and my late

20s I had a kind of spiritual crisis an

existential emergency and I realized

that I grown up in a kind of secular

materialist kind of scientific nihilist

framework but I had never really tested

that for myself to figure out what I

really believed so then I started to

make a spiritual exploration involving

visionary plant sacraments and

psychedelic substances which at that

time were not that so they’ve been sort

of like repressed and gone it’s like

sort of underground priming so yeah that

would be my first book breaking up in

the head kind of a you know combination

of cultural journalism and spiritual

autobiography that led me to a second

book 2012 the return of Quetzalcoatl

looking at the knowledge systems of the

digitus traditional cultures around the

world you know along the way I began to

reckon with the fact that we’re facing

an ecologic global crisis that is so

catastrophic that it could bring an end

to you know pretty much the human

species or at least crash us down to a

much smaller population and I began to

make an inquiry into what were the

blindnesses and gaps in our world and

our knowledge system and understanding

that had led to this type of crisis to

be unleashed by human activity and also

what we do what could we do where we are

now if we wanted to overcome distraction

and inertia actually faced the situation

like how deep would the changes have to

be what would we have to change how

would we go about it so that led me to

this new book have students now which

actually I’ve been working on for quite

a long time I maybe eight or nine years

in different forms I kept trying and

failing to put it together and so now

finally I reach the tipping point where

they want to integrate all the

information and and put it out there so

it’s good big relief for me to get it

out into the world a lot of a lot of

your work does focus on the state of

crisis in which humanity and earth kind

of now finds itself in where do we go

from here I mean seems like the

political system is an utter mess

ecologically we’re just raping the

planet so I mean how scary is the

situation yes I believe that you are

correct the political system is a

travesty and ecologically the sitch

raishin is worse than most people are

even able to reckon with when you factor

in things like the fact we’re losing 10

10 percent or more of the Earth’s

remaining biodiversity every 10 to 15

years

climate change is spiking you know

beyond even recent scientific

predictions now we’ve learned about

deeper threats like the methane that’s

frozen in this you know Siberian

permafrost which begins to erupt as a as

warming intensifies so the book seeks to

look at this systemically one of the

data you know main ideas of the book is

that we can consider the ecological

crisis as a rite of passage or an

initiation much like a shamanic

initiation and it’s a triggering event

on a global scale to shift humanity from

its current kind of adolescence immature

state to a kind of adult level of

responsibility where individually we

step into the role of you know being

responsible for the human community and

the community of life as a whole now I

don’t know how much decimation it’s

going to take before there’s a kind of

tipping point kind of phenomenon and

enough people make that shift that it

becomes like the new paradigm you know

it may be that there’s going to be a

mass reduction in human population I

personally don’t think that’s necessary

I mean one of the main Lynch pins of the

book is Buckminster Fuller and he just

realized that you know we have this

incredible technical capacity but we’re

not using it efficiently or even truly

rationally you know we can see that in

the way resources are spread and used

and you know that our whole system at

the moment is based on you know

incessant growth and planned

obsolescence and waste so yeah so the

book seeks to provide you know a

blueprint for the future in all these

different areas

putting the technical support systems

with social political economic system

but also the types of changes this would

require to you know consciousness

culture values ideology I mean is there

is there a point of no return with this

I mean is there a point where it’s it’s

too late and

and we can no longer be conscious to

this or I mean it doesn’t hate what

about we don’t look at the conscious

with us it doesn’t seem like people are

waking up to the idea that we are are

killing the planet it just seems like

people are more concerned with what the

latest iPhone is I’m just I’m just

wondering you know where how can we kind

of scare straight the people that are

living here into harmonizing with their

surroundings their environment well I

mean obviously that’s that’s kind of the

main questions of the book clearly we

can’t go back you know I mean there’s

some people who are kind of

retrogressive lis primitive maybe like

John’s Erza who believes that we can

almost even almost need to go back to so

you’ll say agrarian so you’ll say

hunter-gatherer and I think that it’s

more about going forward but it’s kind

of approaching our social systems our

cultural systems and our technologies or

in a new direction with the kind of the

plan to build a scalable regenerative

system regenerative society so and we

see in every area that’s what the book

tries to kind of correlate and put

together kind of approaches that make

sense so for instance in terms of

industry there’s really William

McDonough you or the book

cradle-to-cradle where he argue that

essentially you could you know recreate

all of our industries ultimately so they

feedback positively and productively

into their psycho systems you know in

the way nature does nature is constantly

producing useful things for nature you

know we can look at an economic system

that’s maybe not debt based or a global

trading currency that kind of loses

value if you try to hoard it so people

instead of trying to hoard it are

actually the best they can do is get it

back into circulation and share it

effectively so yeah in every area there

there are you know hundreds or even

thousands of years of alternatives and

explorations you know what we would have

to do is become conscious of the fact

that we’ve unleashed this mega crisis

and then determined that we’re going to

make the shift and in terms of the

consciousness of the masses

I believe that’s very permeable and very

influenceable by media by marketing by

programming and one thing I looked at in

the book is the Italian political

philosopher Antonio Negri talks about

how we now live in a time when kind of

the most powerful form of production is

no longer like material production as it

was in Marx’s time like you know sewing

machines and so on

you know typewriter is another thing

that’s most produced is material

production things like narrative social

tools and what a material production

produces above all is subjectivity so

the media and the internet and the

social networks kind of act as a factory

for producing and programming certain

level of subjectivity a certain level of

consciousness if we were able to make

use of these incredibly powerful tools

to you know bring people into a

different state of awareness it could

happen very quickly and I think you see

that kind of modeled at certain types of

events like transformational festivals

where it becomes apparent how quickly

and readily people will change their

ideals and behavior patterns if it makes

their lives more awesome and more fun

hmm that’s intriguing in your book

breaking open had you traveled

experiencing tribal cultures and various

psychedelic substances I mean is this

what you’re kind of referring back to

sorry that’s very what sense I mean

using psychedelics to enhance the

consciousness of humans well I don’t

know for myself and also for many people

that I know including a lot of more and

more people who are really much part of

the sort of you know 1% the elite the

cultural and social influencers

psychedelics are turning out to be

extremely important tools that are

leading people to have a lot of insight

a lot of personal healing you know

they’re like all tools they could also

be misused and overused or whatever but

yeah I think ayahuasca which I’ve

written a lot about which is a medicine

from the Amazonian rainforest often not

only gives people a lot of healing

inside into themselves it makes them

more aware of their embeddedness in a

kind of network of nature and

super-super name

sure and cosmos and so on so yeah I do

think the psychedelics are profound and

important tools I don’t necessarily

think they’re for everybody or that you

know everybody needs to take them you

know it’s in some situations and maybe

does small group you know get certain

insights and then you know uses

narrative and story and ritual to convey

those insights you know to the to the

larger population yeah I mean um so so

yeah so I don’t know that answers your

question did your did your exposure to

those tribal cultures and be psychedelic

compounds change your worldview yeah

they had a deep and profound impact on

me which I described in breaking up in

the head and 2012 and even in the new

book how soon is now I talked about

visiting I did I was lucky to host two

retreats with the Kogi and Iraq people

who live in the Sierra Nevadas in

Colombia and there are pre and Kim

civilization that’s maintained itself in

a fully intact way by kind of escaping

the Western colonialism and hiding out

higher up in the mountains and I was

very profound to be with them and and

meet people who are the lineage holders

of their like metaphysics and so on that

sounds incredible it seems like

ayahuasca is getting more and more

popular kids getting it’s getting almost

trendy and do you agree yep and where do

you see that going I mean do you see

that as harmful to the Amazonian

rainforest these kind of tourists

showing up there or do you see it as a

positive thing I think it’s a very

positive it’s like I mean it’s a Lydia

it’s obviously got all these things are

a little complicated as things get

bigger you know they become part of

other forces and open for different

types of manipulation I mean in a way

it’s you know breaking up in the head

which came out in 2002 I wrote a lot

about ayahuasca and also I wrote about

the Burning Man festival and it’s been

interesting to see these two phenomena

and of blossom you know in the populist

popular mind since then but generally I

mean the thing about ayahuasca is of

course it’s you could say it’s trendy

but it’s still you know when people you

know take the substance it’s a deep

phenomenological experience where they

receive inside they receive healing I

think it’s it’s it’s it’s great

also I don’t think that the ayahuasca

use is having necessarily a negative

impact on the rainforest I think

actually in many cases it’s creating a

new circumstance where which you know

kind of first world people are now

valuing valuing indigenous cultures on a

deeper level and are trying to support

them and working with them and bringing

funding to them and so on and also

ayahuasca is now growing in other

regions and other places you know any

place it’s kind of subtropical like

Hawaii or Florida or whatever so yes I

think it’s you know essentially a

positive thing that ayahuasca is kind of

binding and binding its way for the

world right now in 2006 you published

your 2012 book where you looked at the

Mayan calendar and I mean I think you

even predicted the the 2008 financial

meltdown this was a message that you

received while you’re in the Amazon

right for that how’d that go what do you

eat how did that go how did you get the

message how did we how did it how did

you come to write the book well I was

writing the book already I was deep in

the midst of researching the book and

you know the book I mean I you know for

me each of my books stems out of like a

sense that almost like uncomfortable

feeling that there’s like you know we’re

missing a piece you know in the jigsaw

puzzle with like human knowledge and you

would understanding and so for that the

first book it was you know here I’m

having these incredibly powerful you

know visionary psychedelic experiences

and yet my culture says they’re garbage

that this is nothing your times just to

righted them it’s like boys of the

hippie generation so then that that

dichotomy you know send me out you know

to write the first book on psychedelic

shamanism when I explored psychedelics

shamanism I discovered that there were

huge failures in in the Western

knowledge system and that we suppress

something of tremendous importance

I also frankly had all sorts of

different psychic experiences and

paranormal experiences synchronicities

ESP manifestations of objects and so on

so I also realized that the reject the

Western rejection of the realm of the

psyche and the paranormal was also a

mistake

and that actually these indigenous

cultures understood a lot more about the

nature of reality than we than we knew

in certain areas so I then felt that

having reached that understanding that

it was then necessary to take indigenous

knowledge more seriously because they

were able to access forms of knowing and

forms of awareness that we had totally

dismissed so that led me to then write a

book on these kind of prophecies you

know the Mayan calendar the Hopi

prophecies and so on which all seem to

point towards this time as an intense

threshold of transformation kind of a

yeah dimension a shift from the fourth

to the fifth world and I hope you say

it’s one so yes I plugged it into the

research for that book you know pretty

much as still as a journalist as a

skeptic although now one who is more an

abortion manic and Jungian worldview

than just a skeptical worldview and on

the path of researching that book I had

a experience when I was down in Brazil

working with the Sanford I’m a religion

down there where I was drinking the

medicine and a won ceremony a voice

started to speak in my head and it

essentially announced that it was a

Mayan or Mesoamerican deity or

archetypal flat form that called itself

Quetzalcoatl and began to kind of

download a transmission that I was given

kind of this sense that it was my

message you know my job was to take the

message and you know bring it out into

this into the world you know it was a

very subjectively convincing experience

and I wrote about it in the book and for

a while I was very like caught up in it

in fact my editor rejected the the book

Random House because it was too much for

him the kind of mystical overtones that

I had to find another publisher for that

book but um yeah but but in the end I

also recognized that I had become part

of an archetypal process that involved

the kind of transmission and visionary

material and or something that happened

to you know Madame Blavatsky and Jose

Arguelles and Aleister Crowley and you

know who’s the guy who you know the guy

started the Mormons I mean there’s a

kind of history where people

receive prophetic transmissions and

visionary states it doesn’t necessarily

mean that the information is true it

does it does mean that it’s very

archetypal II charged and powerful oh

yeah it’s been an interesting experience

to have had that transmission and then

to kind of figure out how to kind of you

know kind of transduce the voltage of it

in a sense into normal the normal world

and so on so being told that the world

was going to shift in 2012 must have

been a very emotive experience actually

I wasn’t told the world was going to

shift in 2012 I was told that we are in

a process of transition or metamorphosis

okay and there was an exact timeline in

fact I you know if you look at the book

or the film that I made 2012 time for

change it was you know the film looked

at techniques like permaculture and

bioremediation and alternative economic

systems and so on you know with the

sense that what-what the December 21st

2012 was more like an invitation you

know from the cosmos to examine our

paradigm and our belief system and maybe

integrate you know other ways of knowing

and understanding we talked about

synchronicity a bit I mean how did how’d

that play into writing the book and the

message you received and can you do some

example of that breaking up at the head

and 2012 hour you know described many of

my personal experiences and many

different kinds of secretive cities I

had and you know it’s not just me most

people that I know who go down this kind

of Gnostic or shamanic or mystical path

by the same thing they find that the

world actually becomes it’s kind of

really a fascinating interplay between

the inner psychic and the outer you know

apparently material or physical to the

point where you even wonder you know

ultimately if there is you know dualism

between them or if they’re just two

manifestations of the same kind of

consciousness and sense I mean moving

back to the kind of ecological disaster

that we’re facing is this an ignorance

thing with humanity or is it more greed

or is a little bit of both or

and what can we do what is causing this

and and what can we do obviously the

first thing the first thing we have to

recognize is that you know for the most

part you know nature is fairly flawless

and even perfect and it’s processes you

know it’s been our assumption that since

we’ve developed like culture and

technology or actually separate from

nature but but actually we could be a

natural or cosmic process happening you

know on another scale or another level

and it may be that what we’re undergoing

is is kind of like a birthing process I

got I was in evolutionary biology like

the caterpillar you know becoming the

butterfly you know as the imaginal cells

kind of spread through the the dying

caterpillar and reprogram you know then

an organism so yes so what seems to us

as chaos and ignorance and confusion may

actually be kind of like a program like

maybe unconsciously we’re bringing about

the conditions to force our own

transformation or transmutation because

obviously if we just stay in our comfort

zone you know we’re not we’re not going

to do that that’s not going to happen

we’ll just have more pumpkin spice

lattes at Starbucks and you know you

know and the fact is yeah we’re we you

know unfortunately the the system that

we’re living in you know is a Dominator

system you know it’s based on military

control it’s based on corruption you

know it’s it’s it’s had incredibly

disastrous effects on you know local

cultures and and ecosystems around the

earth and so it you know it’s kind of

maybe a necessary confrontation with you

know with the system that we’ve

unleashed hmm that’s an interesting

perspective I don’t think I’ve heard

that one before there’s something really

interesting in your in this book how

soon is now you state that cities should

be reimagined as the human equivalent of

a coral reef that is sitting in harmony

with their surroundings – I find that

amazing how can we do that it’s not

that’s just not really my idea but

there’s from you know people like John

Todd and Richard register of exploring

this idea of echo cities yeah well you

know first of all you know even in the

best case scenario

you know barring the development of some

fabulous x-men like psychic powers you

know we’re probably not going to be able

to prevent you know coastal flooding and

and the sea level rise of up to 100 feet

you know the Pope the ice caps are

already you know pretty much you know on

the way towards melting so ultimately

we’d have to construct a new human

settlements further inland now the

question is how do we do that I live in

York City and I see the buildings that

are going up here all the time or London

you know there’s no there’s no deep

ecological consciousness to most of them

they’re there the profit-driven

you know kind of you know constructions

if we have to and we are going to have

to make this type of shift you know we

could look at ways of designing cities

that are yet meshed in with the natural

environment where more food has grown on

site where you know they’re actually you

know more ideal centers for a living you

know with biking and walking built into

them and I’ve one friend Stanford who’s

created a thing called regen villages

and his idea is to create this kind of

modular you know kind of kind of

structures that can be manufactured and

distributed and each one comes with the

capacity to you know create its own

foods or aquaponics compost you know

regenerating a renewable energy built

into it solar and so on so you know you

could actually build put these up and

people would instantly be able to live

you know quite self-sufficiently

and that type of idea seems to be a very

interesting way of approaching you know

our artistic pajetta sort of reintegrate

it you know in a way with with nature

rather than cuts we seeking to dominate

or control the processes of nature

interesting you know you talk about how

technology is consciousness in this book

and what did you mean by that we could

look at language itself as a technology

maybe the first technology you know or

music or something you know we can only

become kind of beyond a certain level of

self aware of our actions and our you

know capacities through through abstract

side systems which you know is like a

form of technology and then beyond that

is you know the technologies that we

create

that reflect us back on ourselves you

know so if we think about the

development of the computer and the

internet over the last 40 years you know

how that’s given us a whole new set of

metaphors and ways of understanding the

you know our own consciousness how we

function so it essentially the evolution

of tool using and tool making is we make

a tool you know we have an idea we make

the tool the tool exists as a projection

of our consciousness that it reflects us

back upon ourselves so we iterate we

make another tool and then we learn

about ourselves something from from that

tool and then we do it again and we just

keep doing that that seems to be how

humans uh develop consciousness you know

as well as technology I really like that

I mean – Daniel what to what extent do

this technology reflect our current

psycho-spiritual state do you think it’s

taking us nearer to where we need to be

you’re further away I mean I level we

are probably where we need to be about

taking more like a truly kind of

mystical perspective right like a

samsara is Nirvana but uh yeah I think

it has both aspects I mean on the one

hand

our communications technology bashing us

together into one global brain kind of

one massive planetary super organism on

the other hand in this short interim

period we’re in right now and it feels

that you know the kind of corporate kind

of encroachment unconsciousness has kind

of has kind of taken a new more virulent

form where people are in a constant

state of distraction and you know kind

of said of like where we’re sort of

we’re sort of being you know overpowered

by our technologies at this point you

know one thing I do in the book is I

critique this whole construct of the

singularity

[Music]

as a very kind of vascular linear

construct and also that it kind of

ignores the singularity is the idea that

we’re approaching this threshold where

our technology is going to exponentially

accelerate and ultimately merge with our

bodies so that we become kind of cyborgs

or able to upload our consciousness to

machines or computers

Ray Kurzweil who’s one of the Google

engineering directors is one of the main

proponents of the singularity but it’s

become a very popular ideology and I

would say it’s almost kind of become a

religious faith for Silicon Valley and

for a lot of lot of people you know the

problem is that our technologies are

what have caused all the ecological

damage right so like plastic seemed like

an amazing idea but we didn’t realize

that they were going to end up polluting

every you know endocrine system every

animal on the planet and cause these

huge lakes of plastic islands of plastic

in the oceans and so on so you know we

get very excited about our capacities

and we keep extending them but we’re not

very good at anticipating the unintended

consequences but as we look towards the

future the horizon of the next levels of

technologies that are extremely invasive

or extremely totalizing I think we have

a lot to fear that those technologies

could go wrong and actually make our

situation

radically worse so I think actually

getting the right angle of how we

approach kind of creating technologies

and implementing them is very very

critical if we want to survive the

species and hopefully hopefully even

thrive as a species which is what you

know my favorite brilliant thinkers like

buckets to Poehler and Oscar Wilde at a

point Awards and yeah I mean it seems

like I think there’s something like 1%

in your book it says that there’s 1% of

all solar energies what makes up the

total amount of solar energy that we’re

putting into this resource why why do

you think this is is there I mean I know

that you’re into the occult and esoteric

realm so do you think there’s a control

structure behind this controlling this

with a sort of invisible hand I mean

could there be something that is

engineering

a sort of suicide of this planet yeah

it’s sort of complicated and subtle and

I it takes me a while like for me

language is really important so it’s

really important to find the right angle

and questions like that yes I definitely

believe that there are you know kind of

occult realms hidden powers and

principalities that you know we are in

contact with consciously or not and yeah

there are some some of those realms

you know maybe seek to make use of human

humanity in certain respects for for for

energy or for power and so yeah some of

that is happening I mean another very

intriguing idea for me is that some of

it has to do with bacteria you know

maybe like gut bacteria like you know

talk with the toxic plasmosis and which

changes the behavior of mice or

something I mean I mean you know though

the Western diet and lifestyle you know

supports kind of you know starch you

know wheat gluten sugar you know we’re

feeding all this type of bacteria like

Candida and so on and maybe it makes us

kind of stupid and sluggish and allows

us to be more easily manipulated you

know but I imagine most Trump supporters

have like horrible diets you know so

yeah so it’s like a multi-dimensional

scenario I guess I get you know and it’s

subtle and I think it’s very easy to get

to

conspiratorial and kind of and you know

that I didn’t really avoided that in the

new book to be honest I think it’s more

important for us to understand you know

what the systemic pass is to bringing

about a transformation and then look at

tangible ways we can do that at the time

that’s available why did you why did you

avoid this topic in the book curious I

just find that it becomes like a really

it wastes a lot of people’s time and

energy like instead of actually thinking

about what they can do right they get

into there it’s like it’s like it’s like

a mine parasite if people start thinking

about the

reptilians or the you know

conspiratorial this or that or the gray

aliens right kind of lock on it I feel

in a way that’s almost like how it

functions as a mind parasite it’s like a

distraction device whereas you know what

we have to do is figure out how we you

know mobilize people power you know to

bring about the types of changes that we

need to make if we want to survive the

species I don’t know it’s like it’s it

becomes very self-indulgent and also a

lot of it is just not very good

information or not very clear

information like what I looked into

something like David Wilcock I feel it’s

you know a lot of it is Mike Lee kind of

and a lot of these guys like I

did up there if it’s intentionally

disinformation or they’re just getting

told things by people who are that

reliable than repeating it verbatim I

mean like flat earth kind of thing well

you have flat earth as an example or

there’s you know 150 stories you know

lower underground beneath the Denver

Airport where they’re conducting alien

experiments or whatever I mean they a

lot of people put the stuff out as

literally the case and it creates kind

of like a fuzzy it has a negative impact

I think on the spiritual Keter culture

the way people can’t can’t separate what

they actually you know know and have

evidence of from stuff that’s just kind

of hearsay or kind of murky fable and

this is why this is why I asked if it

was too late for us to save the planet

at this point because it seems like we

need a hard reset for things to go into

a place where it’s in balance again

again we all will I mean I think would

be hubris for us to say that we know

that all I know is that if we were to

wake up tomorrow and we were to you know

sort of break the inertia of our current

institutions and you know have an

awakened populace able to you know use

resources efficiently you know we

wouldn’t have to see a catastrophic you

know failure of you know the systems and

population crash and so on

but obviously the longer

we wait to do this the more difficult

that likely it will be I mean this is

what you know buckets are full of

sawdust back in the 60s you know he saw

that he said that political system

political systems had become irrelevant

and were outmoded the needs of a design

revolution I think what mr. what I

discussed in the book that actually

political systems are also design

artifacts and the systems that we have

politically were designed in the 18th

and early 19th century what information

moved a lot slower than it does today

and where the speed of change was much

slower you know so now I mean you know

we have now this interactive

communication systems of the internet

and it could potentially allow us to you

know grow more intelligence make better

decisions you know make our decisions

with better context you know it could

allow us to do that at a much faster

rate how how do we move from competition

to cooperation uh well that’s the whole

book kind of tries to describe that if I

could sum it up in a couple sentences

but um

I mean you know I think you know several

different levels to that one is just a

realization you know that we’re in an

artificial construct of competition and

domination and that’s built into the

structure of the monetary system itself

you know I’m very intrigued by the

potential abilities of social tools and

social networks to provide like a new

scaffolding for human communication like

I’m friends with one of my friends Casey

who created the web platform

couchsurfing you know which was your

predated Airbnb it was like a non

commercial version of Airbnb but you

just travel around the world as a young

broke person and you can you know said

somebody’s couch because maybe you’re

interesting maybe they want to be a new

person you know and actually people find

those to be really enjoyable

you know experiences so I think there

are a lot of things that are now

commercial transactions which could

actually be shared based on sharing

relationships and maybe ultimately

everything could if we were to

skillfully designed like a phased

transition and one of the ideas is in a

way like you know at some point maybe 25

years ago or who knows when 20 years ago

15 years ago Steve Jobs was like Steve

Jobs was like imagine someday we would

have an iPhone and then he had to kind

of reverse engineer from that outcome

like how do you get the iPhone I need to

have these companies producing these

things or these mines creating these

metals and so on I think we could do the

same thing with our global civilization

if it doesn’t what’s got our heads

together we could you know envision the

best possible outcome you know which

would be a humanity that was free of

fear you know free of resource

constraints you know no longer a

meaningless competition then we could

figure out how reverse the outcome to

get there you’re using technology social

media social tools and so on that’s kind

of the idea I’d suggest in the book

anyone listening is there a single thing

that we can offer to do that they can do

in their bare regular lives to kind of

affect this global position that we’re

in well yeah I mean I mean ultimately I

think there is going to have to be a

call of a time of shared sacrifice in

service to the you know greater

community of life and the more that

people can begin to make the sacrifices

now out of out of a joyful place rather

than a scared place I think out that

that’s something you know so for

instance no longer eating meat because

we know that meat is responsible for you

know a large percentage of co2 emissions

and deforestation you know taking less

vacations you know giving up excess

giving up a second house or you know a

new car or sharing a sharing a car or

not even having a car you know stuff

like that you know beyond that would be

you know building community networks you

know either joining networks that

already exist or creating a group that

feels like it fits you know your your

viewpoints and I think we’re also going

to have to engage in your community

actions and and that you know it’s a

hard figure you know it’s a little bit

hard for you to express without people

having the whole context of the book so

for instance I believe that

decentralization is going to be part of

the new paradigm you know kind of we’ve

had these centralized hierarchical

control structures and those are going

to give way to more participatory

Democratic structures that occupy

pointed towards and you know there are

tools that people can use their social

tools like what is called Lu Bo lol IO

where you can make democratic decisions

in a group following the principles of

the Occupy movement you know so there’s

a movement in Spain called podemos which

is using Libya as its organizing tool so

stuff like that you know but might

become interesting you know for people

to experiment with okay Daniel working

where can people find your work I know

that I mean the book that I’m looking at

is an uncorrected proof so I don’t know

this book comes out in 2017 how soon is

now House it is ago is still off a

little bit into the future yes as soon

as that comes out in February okay

obviously it’s amazing if you will

pre-order the book on Amazon I’m hoping

that a lot of people will because then

it will shoot up the Amazon ranks and

where people will see it I have some

excerpts from the book online at the

website is how soon as now that info

so people can follow me on Facebook and

my personal page is what I usually use

they can buy the website Pinchbeck top

io they could send me a message drop me

a line yeah I got the other stuff

photograph I filled 2012 time for

changes up on YouTube that’s almost like

a play loads video book excellent we

will definitely direct the people that

way that I really appreciate I’m Daniel

thank you so much for being here okay

enjoy forget that this is a human

experience we are going to get out of

here we will see you guys next week